Heroes of the World Press Photo winner's picture of love and homophobia

February 12 were announced World Press Photo winners - 2015. The main prize received a snapshot of Danish photographer Mace Nissen, which depicts John and Alex, same-sex couple from St. Petersburg. We talked with them about the history of photography, LGBT activism, and what needs to be done to make LGBT things good in Russia.

Let's start with the story snapshot. How did you meet the photographer?

John: I already knew Ms, and we have mutual acquaintances, also among the activists. He addressed these acquaintances and said: "I am currently filming a series on homophobia in Russia, is there such a couple in St. Petersburg that could take part?"

Alex: Earlier in this series were mostly photos from stocks and all that.

John: Well, not only with stocks, but such ...

Alex: With a more negative color. And he wanted to make an alternative.

John: He wanted to see life from the inside.

Math had a concrete idea, what should be in the photo?

Alex: There was nothing at all about what we should do in the photograph and how he tried to be completely invisible. In fact, I have never been a supporter of the public expression of any feelings whatsoever - I believe that the personal must remain personal. But about this photo Mas initially said that it would be a photo for the series "Homophobia in Russia", it will be displayed, but ... I thought, okay, she probably never will reach Russia. But, of course, even when he told us that, it was exciting. How is it so, to let some stranger, especially with a camera, into your so private, private space. But when John and I were alone, despite the presence of another person, it became easier.

John: We probably talked for four hours, and after it became clear what exactly would be suitable. I think he had some idea, but there was no specifics. How it all happened - we agreed on everything, came, sat down, and he asked: "What do you usually do at home?" We laughed, because usually our evenings go on like this: we sit together, here I am, here is Alex, and we work.

Alex: We thought that there would probably be a not very interesting picture - two people are sitting at computers - and we decided to show what we sometimes do.

You have been involved in activism for a long time - tell us which one?

Alex: Today I literally submitted an application for a workshop, made a long list. I started not so long ago, but it turned out quite a lot. From what we did together: we coordinated the “Week of united actions against homophobia, biphobia and transphobia” last year, we ourselves organized three events within its framework, a street action on the Day of Silence on April 11. We led the Rainbow column for the first of May. Coordinated the Rainbow column in the march against hatred, in the anti-fascist march.

John: Organized bisexual visibility day last year. Plus, we have regular events every week: Rainbow coffee, leisure activities for LGBT people and film screenings every Thursday. Actually, after the “Week of united actions” we decided to create a coalition for civil equality “Together”, now we are its coordinators. This is the union of several organizations by common goals.

I started activism a little earlier than Alex, since 2009. At first he helped the organization "Soldiers' Mothers", volunteered for "QueerFest", then again switched to the topic of deliberate refusal from military service and alternative civilian service, and sometime since July 2013 I have been involved in rainbow events and have gone deep into LGBT subjects.

In fact, in our society there are quite a few adequate people who are ready to accept, to whom it does not matter who you fall in love with or with whom you sleep

In your opinion, what can you do to ensure that this victory does not remain just one good news among the thousand bad news?

Alex: You can invite people to try to be more open, try to communicate on this topic with friends, with work colleagues, with family. We do not mean publicity, but openness is a little different. We do not offer anyone to go out and shout "I am gay / I am lesbian / I am bisexual / I am bisexual!" - we are talking about the fact that in your circle you can try to somehow open up. After all, many people are afraid - they are afraid of losing their jobs, they are afraid of some kind of physical violence. But in fact, in our society there are quite a few adequate people who are ready to accept, to whom it does not matter who you fall in love with or who you sleep with.

John: You need to overcome your fear and decide on it. For me, the question of what to do so that it does not remain one good news is now very big and relevant. I understand that it is important to do something, but at the moment it is difficult to say - you need to think about what specific actions to take. One of the ideas is to bring the exhibition of Mace to Russia and tell and show these photos to people, as this now has a fairly large resonance.

After you learned about the victory, after you started writing about it in the media, did you have any unpleasant discoveries? For example, many articles write about you as a gay couple, although Alex is openly bisexual.

Alex: To be honest, this is such a bit of a bit of anxiety, but, of course, it is important to talk about it. There is generally the problem of invisibility of bisexuals in the LGBT community. When people see a same-sex couple, they think that two guys are always two gays, and two girls are two lesbians, and this is not necessarily so. Of course, in no case should this mistake be made, but I do not know how else to comment on this.

Is there a problem inside the community? There is a big biphobia topic in LGBT.

Alex: Yes, of course, everything is the same: you are bisexual, you will go to a man of the opposite sex.

What problems do you see inside the LGBT community?

John: As I see it, the main problem now is the attitude of people towards themselves. I mean the question of accepting oneself - no matter how anyone: gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender. Plus unavailability, sometimes even unwillingness and fear to do it. And for those who have already opened - reluctance to receive information. There is a fairly large group of people who are more or less open, but they do not want to know anything, do not want to go beyond the boundaries of the very small world that they have built around themselves. This is a psychological moment.

At the same time, psychologists who work with LGBT people are few.

John: Now it is getting bigger, but still - yes, the volumes are incomparable. Given that at the moment, I think everyone in the LGBT community needs at least four consultations with a psychologist.

Alex: I think one of the main problems of the LGBT community is insufficient cohesion. Those active people who gather, let's say, at coffee cafes, are ready to discuss pressing problems, come up with solutions, act. But there are still a lot of unreached members of the community, those who prefer to spend time only in the circle of close people, or those who go only to clubs and no longer intersect with the community. Those who are simply not ready to not only go somewhere, but even recognize the existence of problems. They say: "I live at home with my boyfriend or my girlfriend, and we are fine." But the fact that they cannot register a marriage, adopt a child, that they cannot have joint property - maybe they do not care, but no one even offered them such a right. What if, if there was an opportunity, they would want it?

Tell me, has your life somehow changed after winning a photo?

Alex: A number of new people in social networks began to correspond with me.

Good write?

Alex: Yes, good.

Well, well, that is not Dmitry Enteo.

Alex: I would be happy to talk with him.

John: About all these people like Enteo and others like him - of course, they do it for themselves. Paradoxically, but if it were not for them, this topic would not have been so acute. Now people think about it, they say, and it is important to make sure that this attention can be translated into some real tool for changing the situation.

There is a feeling that Moscow is much more restrained in terms of LGBT activism. In St. Petersburg, something happens all the time. What is the reason, do you think?

John: Moscow and St. Petersburg are very different cities in general, and people are also different. In Moscow, it seems to me, people are more focused on their own well-being and that's why they go there. One of my good friends holds paid leisure activities in Moscow, and they enjoy great success precisely because they are paid. In St. Petersburg, this topic is not a ride, the St. Petersburg public, one might say, is spoiled in this regard. And this is also a separate question about socially responsible behavior. But in general - in Moscow, other people and a different audience.

Alex: I would also add that Peter has always been a special city, it is closer to Europe, closer to European values. Even in spite of the fact that now all of this is actively "anti-propagandizing", this whole topic is about a special way of Russia, but Peter - he has it in his heart, he has it in his heart.

To the news about the victory of the photograph of Mack, I saw one, maybe two kind of scabrous comments, and that's it

The most common philistine rhetoric comes down to the fact that the LGBT movement "advertises" its personal life. Many do not understand that this is a necessary measure - in order to be seen and heard, and eventually to achieve basic human rights for themselves, minorities in Russia have to fight, show personal things that in another situation there would be no need to show. How do you feel about such a forced publicity?

John: I can not say that this is a comfortable situation. This is really forced, but you live with it and understand that if you don’t do this, no one will do it, and you don’t have a choice. If not us, then who.

What should happen so that you can tell yourself - everything, now LGBT people in Russia will be fine?

John: It will never be good. Even in the most prosperous areas of San Francisco, for example, there are still problems and difficulties. They are completely different, but they will still be. Now, largely from Alex’s submission, we realized that it would be useful to recognize the LGBT community as a separate social group, because at the moment it is very difficult to demand some kind of special anti-discrimination legislation. But if LGBT people are recognized as a separate social group, then the existing anti-discrimination legislation can also be applied to defend LGBT rights.

Alex: This legislation already exists, the Constitution spelled out equality of rights and freedoms regardless of everything, the Criminal Code says that hate crimes must be punished, but since we are in Russia, there are no LGBT social groups and are now being tried under the article "Hooliganism".

Do you have any plans related to the education of the population? Roughly speaking, that people who believe that there is not homosexuality, but “homosexuality” and this disease, look in ICD-10 and learn the whole truth.

Alex: We periodically hold public informational and educational events, at which we are talking about this, of course. Within the framework of the “Week together” this year we are planning to hold a meeting of psychologists working with LGBT people on how to treat LGBT people correctly, what specific problems may be.

John: A separate moment is a lecture for a wider public on what homophobia is in general, what prerequisites it has, how we should respond to it.

Alex: Back in March, the coalition will hold a three-day workshop together, where we will bring together LGBT activists and specialists in gender, psychology and social studies to work together on solving common problems. Because the activists are ready to run out today with a single picket, tomorrow - to go on the march, gathering two hundred people, but they often lack a deeper approach and understanding. And researchers write a lot of things, but they often write to the table, so that later it can be published in some scientific journal in Hindi, so that no one will read it. If you put them together, something good may turn out.

Do you have a feeling that there are forces and opportunities to really change the situation in Russia?

John: I can say yes, there is. Here we have regular events every week. I'll tell you a little background - at some point I realized that it’s difficult to work with the state, and this I personally can’t do, to work with public education is also very heavy work. And I realized that in all this huge wall of misunderstanding and homophobia, you can choose one small brick for yourself, peck it for a long time and destroy it. I chose to work with the community: education, community education, work to make people accept themselves easier. This is what I devoted the last year and a half, and I see that this work helps. I see that people are ready to change, they are ready for action, for meaningful, constructive actions. We see it now in the applications for the workshop that come to us. People are ready for this job, and this is very cool.

On the other hand, I see that after the adoption of this law (on the prohibition of "the propaganda of homosexuality" - Approx. Ed.) The level of aggression has changed a lot. During this time, four attacks were committed against me, but now I understand that I hardly see homophobic comments. Even to the news about the victory of the photograph of Mack, I saw one, maybe two kind of scabrous comments, and that was all. No hatred, no threats, despite the fact that I lead a fairly open lifestyle.

There are several reasons for this. The first is that they have a new theme in order to hate someone. This, of course, Ukraine. They are now all busy with this, some people generally may have gone there. On the other hand, we see that they were taken, roughly speaking, in a bridle. This is evident when working with government agencies. Alex is mainly engaged in this, but when we go to some promotions and events, there are officers who ask: "How will you go, how will you return?" - Call up with us, check that we are fine. We didn’t beat anyone up; we didn’t even throw eggs at all. And I personally now feel a very big recession - precisely in Petersburg. I will not talk about other regions, but it is in St. Petersburg that the level of hatred and homophobia gradually decreases.

Alex: And the community has real strength right now. And if John chose one path for himself, this is work with the community, then I believe that a systematic approach is needed. Working exclusively with the community, it is quite difficult to achieve changes in relation to the community from the outside - from the state, from society. Only by working in several directions at once, trying to educate both from the inside and the outside, working with lawyers, government agencies, psychologists, can global results be achieved.

Photo: Mads Nissen, Anastasia Zlatopolskaya (2)