Nelly Ben Hayun on art projects with NASA and scientific experiments in the kitchen

In the framework of the V International Festival of Actual Scientific Cinema 360 ° in Moscow, the designer of extreme experiments Nelly Ben Hayun spoke. She works at the intersection of art, science and technology: Nelly collaborates with NASA, CERN and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and, with the help of scientists, organizes astronaut orchestras, creates models of a home volcano and thinks of how to see dark energy in her kitchen. The last project of the Frenchwoman is the film "The Game of Disasters", which explores how real scientists would have behaved in the event of a space threat (the answer is confused). We talked to Nellie about how to make science accessible to ordinary people, why a good project is impossible without conflict, and what it is like to work with NASA.

YOU BEGAN WITH THE PRODUCTION OF KIMONO. HOW DID YOU GO TO COOPERATION WITH NASA AND MAKING VOLKAN PROTOTYPES IN HOME CONDITIONS FROM APPLIED ART?

In my youth, I generally wanted to become a general practitioner, but then I left school and started painting. At the same time, I became interested in hyper-realism and wrote a thesis on the relationship between painting and photography and why we are still painting. I have always been interested in color palettes, textures, but most of all - stories, because it is difficult to fit a whole plot onto one canvas. When it turned out that I don’t have a special talent for painting, I switched to applied art and tried to tell stories using textiles. The undergraduate degree in textile design helped develop my passion for textures and storytelling.

After graduation, I went to Japan to learn how to create kimonos from artisans. It was not easy, but this trip taught me to cope with difficulties and find my place even in very closed communities. Before gaining access to one of the workshops, I managed to turn to 150 artisans. Kimonos are made from 40-meter cuts of silk, sometimes golden threads are woven into them, and therefore it is really expensive to make them. This is the national knowledge that the Japanese defend - few wanted the Frenchwoman to know all the secrets of mastery.

HAVE BEEN SUCCESSED THEM?

I spent a lot of time talking and got a lot of rejections, but then I met three brothers from the Takaku family. They treated me like a granddaughter, for six months I studied with them in Tokyo. At first, Takaku made me clean the chimney and do other dirty work. They did this to check whether I really wanted to learn, and I had to prove that I could work non-stop. These six months were truly surreal — at some point, Japanese television even started filming a program about us. As a result, they told me that I could stay and become an apprentice to the brothers.

And then I had to choose: to stay in Japan and practice kimono my whole life or to come back and learn how to tell stories with the help of design. I chose the second option and entered the Royal College of the Arts for Design Interactions course. There we studied "critical design" - this direction helps to tell stories through design and makes you look for problems, not solve them. At that time it was a very young program - she was about five years old, and there I graduated from my studies. However, now I still defend my thesis on socio-economic geography.

WHY IS THE SCIENCE BECOME THE MAIN OBJECT OF YOUR RESEARCH?

Most people do not have access to science. If you want to become an astronaut, your chances to realize this dream are minimal. I think this is unfair, and when starting a project I always think about how to implement complex scientific concepts in real life. I would like to create dark energy in my kitchen sink, why can't I do it? And I begin to work on this experience with scientists to make this possible.

I opened my own studio right after graduation, when I was 23 years old. I decided that I would combine critical design and theatrical methodology. The result of my work is not necessarily a product - it can be a discussion or anything at all. The main thing is that we give viewers a new experience, challenge the current social system and undermine the existing authorities. Our first large-scale project was the International Space Orchestra - the world's first astronaut orchestra. So my studio started working in this niche, and as a result, after seven years of very hard work, we started working with NASA. Now I am still working as a designer at the SETI Institute, which is looking for life on other planets. I work with people like the famous astrophysicist Frank Drake, and even with pop stars Beck, Damon Albarn, Sigur Rós, and every time I come up with new ways to involve them in different projects.

HOW TO MAKE A PROJECT THAT WILL REALLY BE REMEMBERED?

My mentor at the Royal College of Art was Professor Anthony Dunn. He came up with a critical design and taught me that design can be more than just a product. I take a lot of inspiration from the social sciences, so I was also influenced by the sociologist Jean Baudrillard, who invented the term "hyperreality" (the phenomenon of simulating reality, as well as the inability of consciousness to distinguish reality from fantasy. - Approx. Ed.). When you need to come up with a project that will interest the public, you want to make people feel something. It is very difficult to do, because the surrounding reality constantly throws us with different bright images. To create something memorable, we work with people with different skills and backgrounds - our studio collaborates with professionals from the USA, Iceland, Antarctica, South Africa. Among us there are researchers in the social sciences, scientists, engineers and philosophers.

YOU CALL THE DESIGNER-PROVOCATOR, YOU ARE NOT AFRAID TO IRRITATE SCIENTISTS AND ASK THE UNCOMMED QUESTIONS TO THE EXPERTS. WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS?

When I work with scientists, I try to be very impolite. I believe that innovation can only come through conflict. I am inspired by the theater of cruelty - this method was invented by the French playwright Antonen Arto. He always went into open conflict with the public and so received a response from her. We also treat any collaboration: I always work with people who are passionate about their work, because this is the only way to start really interesting discussions. When I see a scientist who loves his field, I question his methods, force him to explain what he really does and why. I annoy scientists, but if we come into conflict, it means that we are doing something worthwhile and interesting. If everyone agrees, then we do some garbage. The more difficult and unsafe the preparation of the project, the more I like it. It's the same with my partners - they are all leaders in their fields and we always disagree with each other.

YOUR FILM "PLAY IN THE CATASTROPHE" TELLS ABOUT THE WORK OF ASTROPHYSICIANS AND SPACE RESEARCH. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT HOW THERE ARE THEIR IMAGES IN BLOCKBUSTERS LIKE INTERSTELLAR?

When I was doing the "Disaster Game", I was wondering what happens to scientists in extreme situations. When scientists have to make very important decisions that have an impact on the future of mankind, who are they targeting: Hollywood stars, like Interstellar actors, or such scientists as, for example, Marie Curie?

Interstellar is not a bad film, but the problem is that there is no independent view of the world of scientists in it, everything is dictated by the PR department of NASA. I'm trying to honestly explore the culture of this agency and understand what kind of people work there. NASA is a state agency with limited funds. He constantly has to choose: to work for a film that will be watched by millions of people, but in which there are no scientists, but only actors - or for a film that will show real people exploring space. Usually they choose the first option, although the other way is more limited, but at the same time more influential, because it really helps people to understand the world of science.

With any state agency is difficult to work. I get most of the money on my projects from the state, and this is also always difficult. The astronaut orchestra, the film “The Game of Disasters” and the new project that I am doing now are the most difficult in my career, but they are the most beautiful, because when designers and scientists manage to understand each other, everything starts to work. You must respect and understand the workings of NASA - by knowing them, you can find ways around the rules.

LAST TIME - ESPECIALLY AFTER THE SCANDAL WITH MATT TAYLOR - TALKS A LOT OF GENDER DISBALANCE IN THE SPHERE OF SPACE RESEARCH.How acute is the problem, judging by your experience?

In space agencies, there are almost only men working, and everyone there is 80 years old. I am a member of the International Astronautical Federation, and there are other women in the federation. They do a really interesting job, but we are a minority. At all conferences, men say that science does not inspire women, but this is not a question of inspiration - women are simply not allowed to occupy important posts in space agencies. Only in one country - in Germany - a woman is headed by a space agency. This is the most shocking fact for me.

Each year, the International Astronautical Congress takes place, where space agency employees from around the world gather. In early October, I was at this congress in Israel, and for four days I visited many panel discussions in which only men participated. And the conference was called "The Future of Mankind", and not "Future of Humankind" - that just pisses me off. We live in the XXI century, and we see all these women who help the directors, but do not become directors, although they should occupy the main positions. And I got this "egg"(testicle-focused. - Note Ed.) the sphere that space science is now.

Unfortunately, the problem is much wider.

That's it. I recently attended another panel discussion in which there were only men, on entrepreneurship in space. Does this mean that the women of Earth cannot do business? I believe that humanity will not live forever on our planet and we must look for a new habitat. We need to think about what role we should play there: do we want only to give birth and feed the children again? Or do we want to be leaders and decide what our future will be like? I believe in the second scenario, and I believe that it should be so.

Men ruled us for many centuries. I see this inequality everywhere: I am offered a job - and I find out that my salary will be 25 thousand less than that of my male colleagues. It should not happen, but it is still happening. I want to convince all women to be bolder and conquer new spheres: it is not necessary to work in space, you just need to have your voice and not be afraid to play a leading role. It is difficult for me to work only with men, but when I'm scared, I think about all the women whose representative I feel, and it becomes easier for me.

WHAT COUNCIL WILL YOU GIVE TO PEOPLE,who want whatsomething change your work?

Never give up, work hard, make mistakes and try again. You need to be bold and ambitious. Of course, it will be very difficult: when I tried to create an orchestra of astronauts, I almost died several times because I fell asleep at the wheel of fatigue. I had no money, and I had to convince people that I had a big company, although in fact I worked almost alone. And of course, a part of your personal life will suffer: at work you get used to being a control freak, and you have to separate work from life in order not to harm others.

Photo:Nick Ballon, Neil Berrett, Noemie Goudal for NBH Studio